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	<title>Comments on: Defining &#8220;Belief&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Truth, Beauty, and Christian Life</description>
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		<title>By: Holly E. Ordway</title>
		<link>http://www.hieropraxis.com/2007/02/defining-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly E. Ordway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hieropraxis.com/?p=4#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Linda, thanks for the great recommendations for further reading. Some of them I&#039;ve discovered and loved already (Foster &amp; Moreland) so I&#039;ll be looking forward to checking out the rest.

It&#039;s really interesting that you bring up the point that we need first to know there&#039;s a God before we consider Christianity. I completely agree (and another friend of mine, a NASA scientist who became a Christian in her 40s, felt exactly the same way). A lot of people try to argue for Christianity, forgetting that if you don&#039;t believe in God, the only argument for Christianity is a utilitarian one: that whether or not it&#039;s true, it helps you live a good life. I always found that approach repugnant. 

I, too, always felt that science and evolutionary theory explained everything, until a good friend of mine pushed me to recognize that it didn&#039;t *actually* explain creation itself. It can handle development, but not origin. Like you, the investigation into Christianity came *after* I arrived at a theistic worldview. 

Thanks again for all the kind words! I&#039;m looking forward to some great summer reading &amp; writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda, thanks for the great recommendations for further reading. Some of them I&#8217;ve discovered and loved already (Foster &#038; Moreland) so I&#8217;ll be looking forward to checking out the rest.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really interesting that you bring up the point that we need first to know there&#8217;s a God before we consider Christianity. I completely agree (and another friend of mine, a NASA scientist who became a Christian in her 40s, felt exactly the same way). A lot of people try to argue for Christianity, forgetting that if you don&#8217;t believe in God, the only argument for Christianity is a utilitarian one: that whether or not it&#8217;s true, it helps you live a good life. I always found that approach repugnant. </p>
<p>I, too, always felt that science and evolutionary theory explained everything, until a good friend of mine pushed me to recognize that it didn&#8217;t *actually* explain creation itself. It can handle development, but not origin. Like you, the investigation into Christianity came *after* I arrived at a theistic worldview. </p>
<p>Thanks again for all the kind words! I&#8217;m looking forward to some great summer reading &#038; writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda M</title>
		<link>http://www.hieropraxis.com/2007/02/defining-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hieropraxis.com/?p=4#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Holly, C.S. Lewis and N.T. Wright are both favorites of mine.  Wright&#039;s &quot;Simply Christian&quot; was a wonder.  I have, but have yet to read his three volume series of which &quot;The Resurrection of the Son of God&quot; is third.  Bishop Wright&#039;s &quot;For Everyone&quot; commentaries are very light reading but contain his wonderful insights.  As an Anglican I am grateful to have such a fine scholar and theologian in the fold.  The turning point for me in coming to faith was the discovery that my high school biology teachers had totally misrepresented Darwinism to me - and I had not thought to doubt the veracity of what they taught.  (We all make leaps of faith even if we don&#039;t realize it.)  I really thought that no thinking person believed in God and that evolution explained life.  Ha! A thoughtful Christian coworker came to me one day and insisted that anyone who read Lee Strobel&#039;s &quot;The Case for Christ&quot; would have to become a Christian. Of course, I wanted to read it and see if this was so - and probably prove him wrong. Fortunately, he wouldn&#039;t let me have the book until he finished it.  Lacking patience, I went to the bookstore to get my own copy and, miraculously, it was not stocked.  Now this book is everywhere and always available so I really mean that God&#039;s hand was involved here.  Since I couldn&#039;t find what I went for, I purchased &quot;A Skeptic&#039;s Search for God&quot; by Ralph Muncaster.  It could have been written for me and echoed most of my attitudes concerning God as the author recounted his own attempts to prove that God is not but only came to prove for himself that God is. This was the book that lead me to understand that a creator god existed.  Oh no!  If this was true, what might He expect of me and which of the theistic faiths belonged to Him?  Providentially, my friend finished &quot;The Case for Christ&quot; and brought it to me the next morning.  This book finished the task and I at last believed. Wonder and joy!  However, if I had read it first, as I had &quot;Mere Christianity&quot; it would not have been enough.  I needed to first know there is a God, then I could consider Christianity. There is more to my story and more people who helped me along, but that is the gist.  I am deeply indebted to the many former atheists, now Christians who put their stories and discoveries in print.  I would not have been able or willing to do the research on my own.  The philosophical arguments for God did not do it for me, I loved C.S. Lewis but he didn&#039;t bring me to belief.  The many fine philosophical arguments for God did not persuade me.  For me, God is found in science (which is silly since I&#039;m no scientist.)  The other arguments now add to my understanding but could not be first.  I am a big fan of Hugh Ross and agree with his insistence that general revelation, including the sciences, will not contradict special revelation.  I recommend his website to you if you have not been there.  http://reasons.org/  I also really enjoy Peter Kreeft, Norman Geisler, Nancy Pearcy, Dorothy Sayers, Os Guinness, Richard Foster, J.P. Moreland, Lauren Winner, Kelly Monroe Kullberg and - oh my, such a list, I will stop now.  As for the young adult group - we have used some Ravi Zacharias materials but may be ready to move into more challenging territory.  

Perhaps your story and search will become one of those helpful books one day. You are now a bookmark and I look forward to your posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holly, C.S. Lewis and N.T. Wright are both favorites of mine.  Wright&#8217;s &#8220;Simply Christian&#8221; was a wonder.  I have, but have yet to read his three volume series of which &#8220;The Resurrection of the Son of God&#8221; is third.  Bishop Wright&#8217;s &#8220;For Everyone&#8221; commentaries are very light reading but contain his wonderful insights.  As an Anglican I am grateful to have such a fine scholar and theologian in the fold.  The turning point for me in coming to faith was the discovery that my high school biology teachers had totally misrepresented Darwinism to me &#8211; and I had not thought to doubt the veracity of what they taught.  (We all make leaps of faith even if we don&#8217;t realize it.)  I really thought that no thinking person believed in God and that evolution explained life.  Ha! A thoughtful Christian coworker came to me one day and insisted that anyone who read Lee Strobel&#8217;s &#8220;The Case for Christ&#8221; would have to become a Christian. Of course, I wanted to read it and see if this was so &#8211; and probably prove him wrong. Fortunately, he wouldn&#8217;t let me have the book until he finished it.  Lacking patience, I went to the bookstore to get my own copy and, miraculously, it was not stocked.  Now this book is everywhere and always available so I really mean that God&#8217;s hand was involved here.  Since I couldn&#8217;t find what I went for, I purchased &#8220;A Skeptic&#8217;s Search for God&#8221; by Ralph Muncaster.  It could have been written for me and echoed most of my attitudes concerning God as the author recounted his own attempts to prove that God is not but only came to prove for himself that God is. This was the book that lead me to understand that a creator god existed.  Oh no!  If this was true, what might He expect of me and which of the theistic faiths belonged to Him?  Providentially, my friend finished &#8220;The Case for Christ&#8221; and brought it to me the next morning.  This book finished the task and I at last believed. Wonder and joy!  However, if I had read it first, as I had &#8220;Mere Christianity&#8221; it would not have been enough.  I needed to first know there is a God, then I could consider Christianity. There is more to my story and more people who helped me along, but that is the gist.  I am deeply indebted to the many former atheists, now Christians who put their stories and discoveries in print.  I would not have been able or willing to do the research on my own.  The philosophical arguments for God did not do it for me, I loved C.S. Lewis but he didn&#8217;t bring me to belief.  The many fine philosophical arguments for God did not persuade me.  For me, God is found in science (which is silly since I&#8217;m no scientist.)  The other arguments now add to my understanding but could not be first.  I am a big fan of Hugh Ross and agree with his insistence that general revelation, including the sciences, will not contradict special revelation.  I recommend his website to you if you have not been there.  <a href="http://reasons.org/" rel="nofollow">http://reasons.org/</a>  I also really enjoy Peter Kreeft, Norman Geisler, Nancy Pearcy, Dorothy Sayers, Os Guinness, Richard Foster, J.P. Moreland, Lauren Winner, Kelly Monroe Kullberg and &#8211; oh my, such a list, I will stop now.  As for the young adult group &#8211; we have used some Ravi Zacharias materials but may be ready to move into more challenging territory.  </p>
<p>Perhaps your story and search will become one of those helpful books one day. You are now a bookmark and I look forward to your posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly E. Ordway</title>
		<link>http://www.hieropraxis.com/2007/02/defining-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly E. Ordway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hieropraxis.com/?p=4#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Linda! It&#039;s nice to know there are other folks out there like me, who found faith through reason. One of these days I&#039;ll write up more of my story, but the short version is that I found myself asking &quot;What&#039;s really true?&quot; and then &quot;What does that mean for my life?&quot; (Hence the titles for the two main sections on this site!) It got kick-started by a conversation with a very intelligent Christian friend who posed some tough and really interesting questions about my atheist/agnostic worldview, especially the questions of origin (was there a First Cause?) and morality (if it&#039;s not just a social invention, where does it come from?). I realized that I didn&#039;t have a satisfactory explanation for either of those things, and decided that I really needed to find the answers. 

I found answers largely through reading &amp; discussion. Hmm, maybe I&#039;ll write up a book list of books that really influenced me... I would say that the two authors who most firmly built up my understanding were CS Lewis and NT Wright. Lewis&#039; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060652926/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=hieropraxis-20&amp;linkCode=xm2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creativeASIN=0060652926&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mere Christianity&lt;/a&gt;  was tremendous for me in terms of explaining faith in rational terms. His book &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060653019/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=hieropraxis-20&amp;linkCode=xm2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creativeASIN=0060653019&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Miracles &lt;/a&gt;was also helpful, as was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060652950/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=hieropraxis-20&amp;linkCode=xm2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creativeASIN=0060652950&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Great Divorce&lt;/a&gt;. NT Wright&#039;s massive book &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060653019/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=hieropraxis-20&amp;linkCode=xm2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creativeASIN=0060653019&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Resurrection of the Son of God &lt;/a&gt;was the final piece I needed, as it helped me to intellectually understand that the Resurrection was a historical fact. It&#039;s heavy going at times but it was exactly what I needed, because it goes into real depth of detail. Since then, I&#039;ve found that Wright&#039;s other books are fantastic as well - I&#039;m currently reading through his &quot;For Everyone&quot; series of New Testament commentaries/translations. 

Let me know what books you&#039;ve found helpful with your young adult group, or any titles you&#039;d suggest for adding to my to-read list!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Linda! It&#8217;s nice to know there are other folks out there like me, who found faith through reason. One of these days I&#8217;ll write up more of my story, but the short version is that I found myself asking &#8220;What&#8217;s really true?&#8221; and then &#8220;What does that mean for my life?&#8221; (Hence the titles for the two main sections on this site!) It got kick-started by a conversation with a very intelligent Christian friend who posed some tough and really interesting questions about my atheist/agnostic worldview, especially the questions of origin (was there a First Cause?) and morality (if it&#8217;s not just a social invention, where does it come from?). I realized that I didn&#8217;t have a satisfactory explanation for either of those things, and decided that I really needed to find the answers. </p>
<p>I found answers largely through reading &#038; discussion. Hmm, maybe I&#8217;ll write up a book list of books that really influenced me&#8230; I would say that the two authors who most firmly built up my understanding were CS Lewis and NT Wright. Lewis&#8217; <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060652926/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=hieropraxis-20&#038;linkCode=xm2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creativeASIN=0060652926" rel="nofollow">Mere Christianity</a>  was tremendous for me in terms of explaining faith in rational terms. His book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060653019/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=hieropraxis-20&#038;linkCode=xm2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creativeASIN=0060653019" rel="nofollow">Miracles </a>was also helpful, as was <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060652950/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=hieropraxis-20&#038;linkCode=xm2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creativeASIN=0060652950" rel="nofollow">The Great Divorce</a>. NT Wright&#8217;s massive book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060653019/102-6837792-3402530?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=hieropraxis-20&#038;linkCode=xm2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creativeASIN=0060653019" rel="nofollow">The Resurrection of the Son of God </a>was the final piece I needed, as it helped me to intellectually understand that the Resurrection was a historical fact. It&#8217;s heavy going at times but it was exactly what I needed, because it goes into real depth of detail. Since then, I&#8217;ve found that Wright&#8217;s other books are fantastic as well &#8211; I&#8217;m currently reading through his &#8220;For Everyone&#8221; series of New Testament commentaries/translations. </p>
<p>Let me know what books you&#8217;ve found helpful with your young adult group, or any titles you&#8217;d suggest for adding to my to-read list!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Linda M</title>
		<link>http://www.hieropraxis.com/2007/02/defining-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hieropraxis.com/?p=4#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Love this post! Your math analogy is exactly right.  I became a Christian 4 years ago at age 44.  Like you, I eventually and surprisingly moved from atheist to agnostic to believer through asking questions and seeking reasonable answers.  I now &quot;understand&quot; that God exists and many other things about my faith that keep me committed to following Christ and seeking further understanding. I still wrestle with God in some areas and struggle through doubting days - yet I know that I know enough to keep going.  Life changing indeed! I would love to read your full story.  What were your questions and where did you find the answers? 

I have found that many, many Christians fall into your first two categories of belief.  They are leery, even fearful of testing or questioning - convinced that faith stands without reason.  Sigh.  My journey began with the mind and then moved to the heart.  I now lead a young adult group and wonder if you have a recommendation for a book or study aimed at building up understanding. The people in my group are eager to learn the reason for the hope they have and have experienced the need to defend their faith in school and with unbelieving friends.  

May the Lord bless you and your work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this post! Your math analogy is exactly right.  I became a Christian 4 years ago at age 44.  Like you, I eventually and surprisingly moved from atheist to agnostic to believer through asking questions and seeking reasonable answers.  I now &#8220;understand&#8221; that God exists and many other things about my faith that keep me committed to following Christ and seeking further understanding. I still wrestle with God in some areas and struggle through doubting days &#8211; yet I know that I know enough to keep going.  Life changing indeed! I would love to read your full story.  What were your questions and where did you find the answers? </p>
<p>I have found that many, many Christians fall into your first two categories of belief.  They are leery, even fearful of testing or questioning &#8211; convinced that faith stands without reason.  Sigh.  My journey began with the mind and then moved to the heart.  I now lead a young adult group and wonder if you have a recommendation for a book or study aimed at building up understanding. The people in my group are eager to learn the reason for the hope they have and have experienced the need to defend their faith in school and with unbelieving friends.  </p>
<p>May the Lord bless you and your work.</p>
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